Do you sail with genoa or jib?

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Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Antti_DD » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:46 pm

Hi everyone,
While Dolphin Dance's furling genoa was still in maintenance (new UV-protection etc.), I sailed the first trips of this season with the jib that came with the boat. I hadn't actually tried the jib before and it appeared to be in very good condition as the previous owners had not used the sail that much either. All in all, I liked sailing with the jib and especially tacking in fresh wind is much easier with the smaller sail and I am also able to sheet the jib closer to the centerline which seemed to improve the angle. In lighter downwind conditions the jib is definitely too small for HR29 and gennaker/spinnaker is required to gain some speed, but in lighter/moderate upwind conditions I did not notice that much difference in speed.

What's your opinion on the fore sail issue and do you use mainly genoa or jib?

Another thing is the sheeting. I noticed that I can trim the sail closest to centerline, when running the sheets between the lower and upper shrouds (see the photo). However, if you ease the sheet even a bit, it starts to contact with the upper shroud so this is not a ideal solution. Which way do you usually keep the sheets? Disclaimer: my experience with the jib is fairly limited so don't take my advice on how to run the sheets :)

HR29_jib.jpg
HR29_jib.jpg (462.76 KiB) Viewed 1916 times
Antti Laine, Forum Administrator
HR 29 # 483 "Dolphin Dance"
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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Chris » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:49 am

Hi Antti,

I must admit to finding the sheeting arrangement with the 29 a bit frustrating at times. Out at sea it's not so bad with long tacks in open water but I often move the sheets in board and outboard of the shrouds as long as conditions aren't too boisterous.

Prior to furling foresails of course, the only option was to use 3 sails and hank on the right right sail for the conditions as do all the racing boys. As cruising sailors, we tend to use one, usually 135% genoa.

However, I was recently talking to a sail maker about this very subject and the concensus seemed to be that 2 sails are probably the best solution.

Sounds like you may have already hit upon the ideal arrangement.

All the best

Chris

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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Antti_DD » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:24 pm

Hi Chris,
I guess that this two fore sails problem is the main reason why some of us here long for the cutter rig. I can see why many modern sailboats have nowadays large mainsails and small fore sails with equipment for Code 0 / Gennaker type of sails.

About the sheeting arrangement: with the genoa there is also problem with the sheets contacting with lifelines when sailing to downwind. Usually it is not a big problem, but in the long run there is risk of chafe.
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HR 29 # 483 "Dolphin Dance"
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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Sirius » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:40 am

Hi,
Interesting topic. I have only the 130% furling Genoa. A good sail and even in blustery conditions I find it retains a good shape when furled down. However, I do find the sheeting arrangements awkward. The lead tends to bear down hard on the top safety line when reaching. Also tacking has to be handled carefully as the sheet snags on either one of the cable deck glands (I am just about to replace these with Index side entry variants) or the spinnaker pole mounting. I will try out various sheet routings this season before looking at alternative sails.

I'm still considering a light wind asymmetric. If I opt for one of these I would prefer the top down furler but am put off at the moment by the need for a small bowsprit. With a top down furler I think one will be necessary in order to get the tack away from the bow and allow adjustment when either reaching or going down wind.

I have sailed under genny alone, poked out, and found this successful for downwind sailing.

Any other views or comments welcome.

Tony

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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Micha » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:33 pm

Hello All!
I don´t use a furling foresail, which probably separates me from the other 29 owners.
Since the begining, I choose between a 31m2 genoa, the standard jib and the 12m2 storm jib.
Sailing in the mediterranean, the genoa is in use quite often. Yes! It costs me some degrees close-hauled, but downhere, it´s worth it.
Moreover, I am very fond of my spinnaker. Top speed, measures with GPS, 7,6kn!
Up to now, I don`t even use lazy jacks for the main.
Actually, I´m thinking of changing all this, due to comfort.
What du you think?

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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Antti_DD » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:16 pm

Hi,

In general I like very much furling foresails as they just make life easier. And if one wants to optimize the use of jib and genoa in different conditions, it is still possible to do that with furling sails. The main thing here is mainly of course comfort (i.e. laziness), but it is also about safety as you don't have to visit fore deck for changing the foresail in bad conditions.

About the lazy jacks, they also make life a bit easier and I would recommend integrating the stack pack (sail cover) into the system, as covering the sails after the sail is then very easy at it only takes only about a minute or so.
Antti Laine, Forum Administrator
HR 29 # 483 "Dolphin Dance"
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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby villalonso » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:36 pm

Hello everyone

This post I can bring my experience with the "Villalonso" which has a cutter rig with jib and foresail. In my opinion, this provision is better to use genoa and foresail, because when go about, jib passes more easily and faster than the genoa from one band to the other. To facilitate the transition, it remains hunted sheet the foresail, while veers jib, and once the jib is on the other side, then sheet the foresail is released and the corresponding hunting to opposite side, adjusting the position of the sail.

Pictured jib and foresail is the position of both. Foresail for a block mounted on a bracket attached to the roots of the fairlead located on the roof of the cabin is used, as shown in the attached photos.

As shown in clocks navigation to an apparent wind of 9 knots, a speed of 4.5 knots is achieved. When the wind increased to 12 knots, the speed reaches 5'5 knots. As for the stability of direction, as seen in the photograph of the tiller, the boat is fully stabilized, without correcting the heading. The course keeps the pilot wind. This pilot wind, as old as the boat (33 years old) is the classic system with auxiliary rudder blade.

In the photos jib and foresail it can be seen that there is taken a reef at mainsail. This is because when I solo sailor, and with the expectation that it can sharply increase the wind, as sometimes happens in the area where sailing, this allows me to take control quickly, because only I have to reduce the jib and sail withnthe foresail and mainsail. Sometimes you can spend a wonderful situation with winds between 9 and 12 knots to winds 18 to 25 knots in 30 minutes.

Greetings from Altea on the Spanish Mediterranean coast

(I have problems to include photos, Can you help me?

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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby villalonso » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:33 pm

Hello

The pictures
Attachments
Block support.jpg
Block support.jpg (84.5 KiB) Viewed 1643 times
Speed and wind.jpg
Speed and wind.jpg (68.04 KiB) Viewed 1643 times
Tiller.jpg
Tiller.jpg (89.67 KiB) Viewed 1643 times
Foresail Block.jpg
Foresail Block.jpg (91.57 KiB) Viewed 1643 times
Jib and Foresail.jpg
Jib and Foresail.jpg (73.84 KiB) Viewed 1643 times

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Re: Do you sail with genoa or jib?

Postby Antti_DD » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:02 pm

Hi,

Thanks for those interesting photos! I am very jealous of that cutter rig, which I think is the optimal solution for dealing with the sheeting problem and in general, for this jib vs. genoa discussion. You have always the optimal sail for different conditions!
Antti Laine, Forum Administrator
HR 29 # 483 "Dolphin Dance"
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