Teak deck rebuild/refit completed

Maintenance and refit discussion
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Teak deck rebuild/refit completed

Postby Martijn » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:57 pm

Hello fellow HR 29 owners, as promised herewith my first update on the teak deck refit of ´QUINT´

This weekend I started the project and was surprised to learn this teak deck was probably not originally placed by the HR yard. Lots of the slats were laying loose and could easily be removed after unscrewing. Approximately 95% of the slats is in good condition and it would be a waste to dispose them. I have decided to take the whole deck off and relay it using the existing teak slats. This action will be time consuming but also has some advantages. It saves material cost, will be executed just as laying a new teak deck and makes a contribution to the environment.... a tree less to bring down :!:

Through the years the gel coat under the teak deck got a bit affected and some places showed signs of craquelure. After measuring the moist content of the laminate I was pleased to learn that it was in the range of 10-12% which is dry enough for treatment. The gel coat shall be sanded down totally and treated with epoxy primer before relaying the teak slats. The plan of action at this stage is the following;

- Removing deck fittings and the entire teak deck
- Sand down the gel coat and apply epoxy primer
- Clean/p-repare the good slats for re-use and replace the once in sorry state for new
- Body wood along side the 'coaming' of the cockpit will be made new
- Entire deck will be placed using compound that bonds laminate and teak for 15 years life time
- The grooves will be primered then filled with Sikaflex
- Finally the whole deck will be sanded down which is a stage I cannot wait for to enter :)

Work in progress…… will post progressions....
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Last edited by Martijn on Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Antti_DD » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:03 pm

Great, this is a very interesting project and makes also very valuable contribution to the forum. So thanks Martijn for this and looking forward to seeing the follow-up.

It is great new – in terms of both the ecology and economy – if the old slats are in good condition, and you can remove those without damaging them. If I understood correctly, your boat was originally made without the teak deck and the teak deck has been retro-fitted? How did you find out this?

One thing that I would like to mention, when talking about up re-caulking of the HR teak deck in general. To my knowledge, HR uses (or used) some different caulking stuff, which may not be compatible for example with Sikaflex. It would be interesting to hear, if someone can confirm this or has more information on the subject. I heard this from a marine engineer, who had once replaced the whole teak deck caulking on one HR, and after the job was finished, he realized that the Sikaflex did not grip well to the teak. So he had to start the bloody job all over again!!! Dolphin Dance's deck is not an original HR deck either, so I have been just using the Sikaflex 290dc for caulking repairs...

Another thing, while looking information on HR teak decks, I came across this info on Regina Sailing's website (http://reginasailing.com/General/BoatLa ... aTeak.html):
"Before approximately 1987, Hallberg-Rassy used to lay the teak in silicone. This material kept the deck free from leakage but it was not a particularly good glue. Hence, old decks were more held in place by the many screws than by the silicone. Eventually, the silicone looses its function and it is not unheard of that water finds its way between the teak and the underlying GRP-deck nevertheless. You can sometimes hear that you are walking on water, which is not good if this water freezes in winter. But even in warmer climates water can find its way further down through one of the many screw holes down below deck. Some old teak decks are still fine, but for others it is time to change the teak. The good news is that a teak laid in silicone is easily removed from the boat: the screws are undone and the teak ribbons can be lifted off the boat."
Antti Laine, Forum Administrator
HR 29 # 483 "Dolphin Dance"
Blog: http://sydolphindance.com / Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sydolphindance / Twitter: https://twitter.com/sydolphindance

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Chris » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:11 pm

The rubber HR use is an alcoxy silicone which is why Sikaflex won't stick to it. You have to use the same which is available from HR. It is mighty expensive though. I searched the UK for an equivalent silicone based marine deck caulking but drew a blank. So I purchased a couple of tubes from HR. It has a very short shelf life unfortunately, not sure why but it's probably why it is not stocked by anyone.

Because of the difficulty of supply, I dug a little deeper and managed to find out a little more about the HR sealant and found a product available in the UK that was comparable. As it wasn't a "Marine Grade" product but an industrial sealant, I purchased a couple of tubes and carried out a test over 3 months, making up a test piece of teak decking and compared the two. It's the same!

Repairs had been done to Impulse's decks before I bought her but with the wrong stuff and several seams of caulking just pulled out. When the weather improved I replaced the caulking.

That was eighteen months ago and it's still very firmly in place. Oh and the prices… HR about £16.00 a tube. The equivalent I found… £3.50
It pays to do a bit of research I think.

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Martijn » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:44 pm

Thanks for your enthusiastic interest and additional input! Antti, actually after your post I started to doubt my previous statement about the fact I might have a retro fitted deck cause my deck was indeed placed on silicone caulking. The reason I thought it was not original arose when I observed unused screw holes under deck and the fact the teak deck pattern was different to other HR29's. Also because the deck was practically laying loose on the GPR made me presume it could never be an original HR job.

Thanks for all the tips about the compatibility of different products but silicone will not be used in this project, all the selected materials are well balanced and compatible.

At this point the entire deck is off the boat and practically all slats have survived the ordeal. Next the silicone residue shall be removed then a few days of drying before sanding the gel coat.
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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Martijn » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:11 pm

Things are going well and the whole deck has been sanded and the first layer of epoxy primer has been applied.

If you have an original deck or for that matter one that is screwed down and when silicone caulking was used be aware of leakage. The screws are going through the first polyester layer into the balsa making it vulnerable. Balsa is extremely sensitive to moist which sets the rotting process in motion. Take care of all leaking spots on the teak deck cause water will definitively seek it's way to the core of the sandwich.
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Last edited by Martijn on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Antti_DD » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:03 pm

I see that you waste no time with the project. Nice to see that things are going ahead! It would be interesting to hear some rough estimate of the work hours – I have understood that for example dismounting all the deck gear takes surprisingly long time and needs at least two people to tackle the job.

Good point on taking care of the leaks to the deck core, which is indeed a potential problem with old teak decks. Your photo showing all those screw holes on the deck is a pretty self-explanatory. However, to my knowledge, HR has been using at least from the late 70s, Polyvinyl Cellular Plastics (or Divinycell) foam on their deck core, so it won't rot like balsa does. However, the moist is not particularly a good thing for Divinycell either, as it can lead to delamination.

If I understood correctly, your new deck will be glued down without screws?
Antti Laine, Forum Administrator
HR 29 # 483 "Dolphin Dance"
Blog: http://sydolphindance.com / Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sydolphindance / Twitter: https://twitter.com/sydolphindance

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Martijn » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:43 am

Herewith my time estimates and further developments:

- Removing deck fittings and the entire teak deck -> 5 hours with an additional hand of a second person to hold the nuts under deck. Some genoa rail bolts were stuck so badly they had to be cut off
- Sand down the gel coat -> 4 hours depending on tool quality (used Festo tool works like a Tornado)
- Apply 2x epoxy primer layers -> 4 hours (2 hours per layer)
- Clean/p-repare the good slats for re-use and replace the once in sorry state for new -> 8 hours
- Body wood along side the 'coaming' -> 6 hours
- Glue deck slats -> 16 hours
- Primer grooves -> 3 hours
- Fill grooves with caulking -> 8 hours
- Sand deck -> 6 hours
- Mount the deck fittings -> 8 hours

App. 70 labour hours should cover this refit job having experienced minor set backs!

Indeed the deck will not be screwed down but glued with Sabadeck; http://www.saba.nl/index.php?id=438&L=4
Additional advantage you don't have to worry anymore about plugs working themselves out of the deck. Plug hole are now milled through the entire slat and will later be fixed with epoxy. Plugs are therefore as deep as the thickness of the slat, on average after sanding about 11 mm.

Progressions; Second layer of epoxy primer was applied and the starboard slats have been milled, mended and pre-treated.
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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Dan » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:43 pm

Hi Martijn,
I think what you are doing and sharing with us is fantastic. Please keep us informed of your progress.
I understand that you intend to glue the slats to the deck, by what method will you apply the necessary pressure between the slats and the deck?

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Martijn » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:22 am

Thanks for the very positive replies! I will document the refit from start to finish.
Dan, The slats will indeed be glued to the deck and this is why the epoxy primer was applied for strong bonding. An advantage of using the old slats is that they align with the old screw holes and can therefore be used temporary to fix the slats in place for drying. Since the holes in the slats have been milled the temp screws will be fixed with a washer on top of the teak slat pulling it down. Later they will be taken out, the holes filled with caulking and finishing it by placing the plugs with epoxy.

Antti, Referring to your comment about the deck being filled with PCP I found out that HR probably has used different materials for various sections of the deck. At planer deck area's foam is used but at curved self supporting area's like the peak I observed Balsa. The Balsa here provides the extra strength. Where the transition of core material sits is hard to tell.
Last edited by Martijn on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Teak deck refit in progress

Postby Martijn » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:24 pm

Okay guys in the mean time the rebuilding process has been set in motion and the treated slats are being placed back just temporary. This is done to check if the puzzle is still correct and fits with the newly made parts. As you can see from the pictures the slats are being held in place by temporary screws and washers. The whole deck will be build up like this proceeding with gluing down the slats piece by piece. This seems to be an intensive job but reassures no mistakes will be made mixing up the slats. Also all the drains were taken out for cleaning so the underlying holes in GRP and core structure could be worked up. The core has been scraped out locally and was filled it with epoxy. Now the screws again will have the maximum holding support when placed.
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